LC20 Dual Rudder Controls

Submitted by Anonymous on

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From: Angier M. Amesby way of Marvin Kaye <marvkaye [at] olsusa.com> <alphadog [at] nii.net>
Subject: Re: LC20 Dual Rudder Controls
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:42:33 -0400
To: <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

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I am installing dual rudder/brake controls for my copilot wife and had

occassion to call Don Goetz today with a question about the cable standoffs at

FS128. Without any prompting from me, he launched into a discussion about how

their dual system was a poor design due to binding and built in friction

problems, etc. He stated that it would be best not to connect the copilot to

rudder but if I was determined to do so, 'problems' could be eliminated if I

would just run two independent sets of cables from the controls all the way

back to the rudder.



Well, I guess it's time for another can of beer while I ponder this subject.



So the questions are...are any of you running dual controls and are you happy

with them? Any problems and what if anything would you suggest doing

differently?



Rudderless



Angier Ames

LC20 Dual Rudder Controls

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: <CHRISTOPHER_ZAVATSON [at] udlp.com>
Subject: LC20 Dual Rudder Controls
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:33:56 -0500
To: <Lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>
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     Angier,

     

     I spent many hours fighting this issue.  I have the dual system

     installed.  The forces required to move the rudder were so great that

     you lost all feel for the rudder.  After touch done it was nearly

     impossible to avoid engaging the brakes while trying to move the

     rudder.

     I'll skip all the intermediate steps and describe the final

     configuration.  I have completely removed the return springs on the

     pilot side adjustable rudder pedals.  I did add two long, very week

     tension springs between the pedals and the firewall just to keep them

     from falling backwards with your feet removed.  I took the return

     springs on the passenger side and ground out the ID to reduce the

     material cross section from about .110 to .080.  I also lubed the

     nylon guide tubing with LPS2.  With these changes the dual system

     feels like the single set up with standard parts.  As I was working

     through this(9 months ago), Lancair was working on getting lighter

     return springs for the adjustable rudder pedal assemblies.  I am now

     happy with the rudder force and feel.

     

     Chris Zavatson

     N91CZ

LC20 Dual Rudder Controls

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Rumburg, William <wrumburg [at] cdicorp.com>
Subject: RE: LC20 Dual Rudder Controls
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:58:49 -0400
To: 'lancair.list [at] olsusa.com' <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>
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After hearing some negative comments from Don Goetz regarding

right side rudder control problems with the current design,

Angier Ames requested that those who have installed right side

rudder control relate their experience. Below is a copy of my response.

I want to forward it to everyone who is building and have yet to decide,

so that they do not become biased against the current design.

 IT WORKS WELL !





Angier-



    Hi again !

 Several years ago during my building, I decided to install dual rudder

controls, but intuition told me not to install right side brakes.

    As you know, the plane cannot be operated from the right seat on the

ground without brakes, however I didn't see that as a drawback, if you

stop and think it through. The following years seemed to prove my intuition

correct, as there have been MANY reports of problems with dual brakes.

    I don't know where Don is coming from with his statements on dual

rudders. I installed them per the manual and everything works perfectly.

   You splice them into the pilot side cables just forward of the standoffs.

    In the August-September issue of LNN, I published a diagram for a

much better method of attaching the cables to the pedals on BOTH sides.



                                          Bill Rumburg

                                          N403WR   (Sonic Boom)

LC20 Dual Rudder Controls

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Donald Gordon <BlueSkyComputer [at] compuserve.com>
Sender: Donald Gordon <BlueSkyComputer [at] compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: LC20 Dual Rudder Controls
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:44:01 -0400
To: Lancair Mail List <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>
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Me too ...



        I've installed both the dual rudder pedals and brakes on my L320.

I can hardly move the rudder!  I have some binding on the standoffs but it

certainly can't account for all of the friction.  I'll have to change

something before first flight.  The current setup is NOT safe for flight.





Don

LC20 Dual Rudder Controls

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: B. & M. Burgess <crmwb [at] swbell.net>
Subject: Re: LC20 Dual Rudder Controls
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:32:09 -0500
To: Lancair Mail List <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>
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Angier et al:

The dual control replies are all valid.  I decided to

install them in my 320 and saw problems right off.  Mostly

they are small and correctable. I discovered immediately

that hot gluing the tubing is not a good idea. Hot glue

distorts the vinyl and it stays that way.  I first heated

the tubing slightly with a heat gun and got it as straight

as I could.  I then laid out the cables and cut them and ran

each in its tube.  Then I streched out the runs clamped them

on each end, snug but not too tight. I taped, laid weights

on, or otherwise got each section of run in place and

microed.  I did not like the outside pedal attachment.  When

you move the pedal fwd and back it drags the cable in and

out from the side.

Fix:  I made a small ell bracket and attached it to the

pedal bolt then to the cable adjust linkage.  This allows

the padal to move full travel, (if you need it), and the

cable to stay in line with the fuselage tube.

After several samples of springs from the local farm supply,

I found a set with the right tension and length to keep the

pedals upright and not too tight.  With pedals on both

sides, no right side brakes, they work smooth as glass.  Do

not lube cables or tubes with any wet lubricant.  It will

only collect dirt.  Use a dry silicon or graphite if you

think you need it.  The layout in the manual works fine.

I've seen a couple of L320s with no springs and the rudder

flops around like a rag in the wind.  Not my idea of good

building techniques.  I didn't go for the extra brakes

because of the lock up problems reported.  I don't think

they are a good idea on the "passenger" side anyway.  What's

the first thing a passenger does in a car when "they" think

there's a problem?  They try to push their feet through the

floorboards.  I have pictures. If anyone is interested, I

can email them.  Also, I've built the RST switching panel

with marker beacon and intercom, and all my antennas. I

highly recommend them.  Also, get Jim Wier's antenna book.

The stuff is all simple and it works.  I've talked five

miles from my shop to the airport on a hand held connected

to the com. antenna.  Crystal clear.  

"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill."

Happy building!  Bob Burgess, N320SP

"He who dies with the best toys, wins!"