Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup

Forums: 

From: George Wehrung <gw5 [at] me.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 09:45:56 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>

All,


I am experiencing higher than normal oil temps.  It’s not unusual to see 210˚F in the climb.  And then the oil temps remain above 200˚ during cruise.

In the last annual, there was nothing done to the fuel system. The magnetos were spot on.  We also checked the temp sensor to ensure its accuracy against three different thermometers and ran it up and down using a deep fryer with water.  We also pulled the Vernatherm out of the bottom of the oil cooler to ensure it was working.  I also called Rosta mfg to discuss the vernatherm operation.  It cracked open at 150˚ and was full extended by 185˚ per the manufacturer.

In flight, I started playing with the fuel flow to see if I could lower the temps.  What I noticed was that If I put the fuel flow about 250˚ Rich of Peak I could move the oil temp down below 180˚.  I could then hold it using about 225˚ ROP.  I also cooled the motor by reducing the RPM to 2300. 

Anytime I ran the motor below 200˚ROP the oil temp would climb again. This is counterintuitive according to the Oklahoma guys recommendations on running the EGT temps.

As another point of data, I ran the engine LOP and noticed that I could stabilize the temp at 184˚ by running about 45-50˚ LOP. 

After talking to the TCM support staff it would appear that I might need a fuel system setup but I don’t know of anyone that has a fuel pressure system, which will necessitate me taking the plane to a repair station.  That system that TCM recommends is about $5,500. 

Here are some numbers from yesterday’s flight:

Date
Altitude
OAT
IAS
TAS
% HP
RPM
Peak EGT
Deg R/LOP
GPH
Fuel PSI
Oil Temp
Oil PSI













8/31/2014
9500
11
129
153
58
2300
1451
206 ROP
16.7
16
179
51
8/31/2014
9500
12
136
162
60
2400
1451
247 ROP
18.9
19
180
51
8/31/2014
9500
13
128
151
58
2300
1461
45 LOP
10.6
12
184
51
8/31/2014
9500
13
130
154
62
2400
1461
42 LOP
11.3
11
183
51
8/31/2014
9500
13
131
155
62
2500
1461
50 LOP
11.5
11
184
51
8/31/2014
9500
13
131
155
62
2490
1461
36 LOP
11.5
11
184
51
 

Does anyone have any recommendations? 


Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup

From: Jay Phillips <jayph [at] fastairplane.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [LML] Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:36:42 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>

George,

 

You need to do a proper fuel system setup (SID 97-3). Once that is done you’ll be able to look for other problems.

 

You don’t say what engine you have. If it is a TSIO-550, then indeed, an expensive piece of test gear is required which references fuel pressure against upper deck pressure. Although it is inconvenient, best move is to find a competent shop which has the gear. If you have an IO-550, then all that is needed is a couple of calibrated gauges of sufficient resolution, plus hoses and fittings. This is all spelled out in SID 97-3.

 

SID 97-3 is supposed to be performed every annual, every 100 hours, and any time the fuel system has been opened.

 

Jay Phillips

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net]">mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Wehrung
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 6:46 AM
To: Lancair Mailing List
Subject: [LML] Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup

 

All,

 

I am experiencing higher than normal oil temps.  It’s not unusual to see 210˚F in the climb.  And then the oil temps remain above 200˚ during cruise.

 

In the last annual, there was nothing done to the fuel system. The magnetos were spot on.  We also checked the temp sensor to ensure its accuracy against three different thermometers and ran it up and down using a deep fryer with water.  We also pulled the Vernatherm out of the bottom of the oil cooler to ensure it was working.  I also called Rosta mfg to discuss the vernatherm operation.  It cracked open at 150˚ and was full extended by 185˚ per the manufacturer.

 

In flight, I started playing with the fuel flow to see if I could lower the temps.  What I noticed was that If I put the fuel flow about 250˚ Rich of Peak I could move the oil temp down below 180˚.  I could then hold it using about 225˚ ROP.  I also cooled the motor by reducing the RPM to 2300. 

 

Anytime I ran the motor below 200˚ROP the oil temp would climb again. This is counterintuitive according to the Oklahoma guys recommendations on running the EGT temps.

 

As another point of data, I ran the engine LOP and noticed that I could stabilize the temp at 184˚ by running about 45-50˚ LOP. 

 

After talking to the TCM support staff it would appear that I might need a fuel system setup but I don’t know of anyone that has a fuel pressure system, which will necessitate me taking the plane to a repair station.  That system that TCM recommends is about $5,500. 

 

Here are some numbers from yesterday’s flight:

 

Date

Altitude

OAT

IAS

TAS

% HP

RPM

Peak EGT

Deg R/LOP

GPH

Fuel PSI

Oil Temp

Oil PSI

8/31/2014

9500

11

129

153

58

2300

1451

206 ROP

16.7

16

179

51

8/31/2014

9500

12

136

162

60

2400

1451

247 ROP

18.9

19

180

51

8/31/2014

9500

13

128

151

58

2300

1461

45 LOP

10.6

12

184

51

8/31/2014

9500

13

130

154

62

2400

1461

42 LOP

11.3

11

183

51

8/31/2014

9500

13

131

155

62

2500

1461

50 LOP

11.5

11

184

51

8/31/2014

9500

13

131

155

62

2490

1461

36 LOP

11.5

11

184

51

 

 

Does anyone have any recommendations? 

 

 

Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup

From: George Wehrung <gw5 [at] me.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:45:32 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Your right Jay. I need to do this. I have a IO550. Non turbo 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 2, 2014, at 11:36, Jay Phillips <jayph [at] fastairplane.net

> wrote:

George,

 

You need to do a proper fuel system setup (SID 97-3). Once that is done you’ll be able to look for other problems.

 

You don’t say what engine you have. If it is a TSIO-550, then indeed, an expensive piece of test gear is required which references fuel pressure against upper deck pressure. Although it is inconvenient, best move is to find a competent shop which has the gear. If you have an IO-550, then all that is needed is a couple of calibrated gauges of sufficient resolution, plus hoses and fittings. This is all spelled out in SID 97-3.

 

SID 97-3 is supposed to be performed every annual, every 100 hours, and any time the fuel system has been opened.

 

Jay Phillips

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

] On Behalf Of George Wehrung
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 6:46 AM
To: Lancair Mailing List
Subject: [LML] Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup

 

All,

 

I am experiencing higher than normal oil temps.  It’s not unusual to see 210˚F in the climb.  And then the oil temps remain above 200˚ during cruise.

 

In the last annual, there was nothing done to the fuel system. The magnetos were spot on.  We also checked the temp sensor to ensure its accuracy against three different thermometers and ran it up and down using a deep fryer with water.  We also pulled the Vernatherm out of the bottom of the oil cooler to ensure it was working.  I also called Rosta mfg to discuss the vernatherm operation.  It cracked open at 150˚ and was full extended by 185˚ per the manufacturer.

 

In flight, I started playing with the fuel flow to see if I could lower the temps.  What I noticed was that If I put the fuel flow about 250˚ Rich of Peak I could move the oil temp down below 180˚.  I could then hold it using about 225˚ ROP.  I also cooled the motor by reducing the RPM to 2300. 

 

Anytime I ran the motor below 200˚ROP the oil temp would climb again. This is counterintuitive according to the Oklahoma guys recommendations on running the EGT temps.

 

As another point of data, I ran the engine LOP and noticed that I could stabilize the temp at 184˚ by running about 45-50˚ LOP. 

 

After talking to the TCM support staff it would appear that I might need a fuel system setup but I don’t know of anyone that has a fuel pressure system, which will necessitate me taking the plane to a repair station.  That system that TCM recommends is about $5,500. 

 

Here are some numbers from yesterday’s flight:

 

Date

Altitude

OAT

IAS

TAS

% HP

RPM

Peak EGT

Deg R/LOP

GPH

Fuel PSI

Oil Temp

Oil PSI

8/31/2014

9500

11

129

153

58

2300

1451

206 ROP

16.7

16

179

51

8/31/2014

9500

12

136

162

60

2400

1451

247 ROP

18.9

19

180

51

8/31/2014

9500

13

128

151

58

2300

1461

45 LOP

10.6

12

184

51

8/31/2014

9500

13

130

154

62

2400

1461

42 LOP

11.3

11

183

51

8/31/2014

9500

13

131

155

62

2500

1461

50 LOP

11.5

11

184

51

8/31/2014

9500

13

131

155

62

2490

1461

36 LOP

11.5

11

184

51

 

 

Does anyone have any recommendations? 

 

 

Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup

From: bob mackey <n103md [at] yahoo.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: re: Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 16:13:06 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
> Does anyone have any recommendations?


A few....
1) specify the type of engine and aircraft
2) check the obvious things first:
Is there enough oil?
Is the oil freely moving through the oil cooler?
Is cool air blowing through the oil cooler?
Was it working fine before? Or was the oil always too hot?

If it is a recent problem, what changed? (Change it back)
If it is a chronic
problem with this aircraft, what is the air pressure drop across the cooler? What is the air temperature increase after passing through the oil cooler? Is the right oil cooler installed?
 
It is not at all clear to me that the warm oil is an indication of a fuel problem. 
If all 4 or 6 cylinders are running smoothly ROP and LOP, then the problem is heat removal, not fuel supply. If the CHTs are OK, then the problem is specifically about the oil system, and not airflow over the cylinders.
Changing the fuel system when the oil cooler is clogged would just compound the problems. 

Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup

From: George Wehrung <gw5 [at] me.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Engine Oil Temps; May need fuel system setup
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:52:38 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Thanks  Bob. I always appreciate the help

George

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 2, 2014, at 16:13, bob mackey <n103md [at] yahoo.com

> wrote:

> Does anyone have any recommendations?


A few....
1) specify the type of engine and aircraft
2) check the obvious things first:
Is there enough oil?
Is the oil freely moving through the oil cooler?
Is cool air blowing through the oil cooler?
Was it working fine before? Or was the oil always too hot?

If it is a recent problem, what changed? (Change it back)
If it is a chronic
problem with this aircraft, what is the air pressure drop across the cooler? What is the air temperature increase after passing through the oil cooler? Is the right oil cooler installed?
 
It is not at all clear to me that the warm oil is an indication of a fuel problem. 
If all 4 or 6 cylinders are running smoothly ROP and LOP, then the problem is heat removal, not fuel supply. If the CHTs are OK, then the problem is specifically about the oil system, and not airflow over the cylinders.
Changing the fuel system when the oil cooler is clogged would just compound the problems.