Rudder pedal stops

Submitted by Anonymous on

Forums: 

From: John Cooper <snopercod [at] comporium.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Rudder pedal stops
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 07:41:11 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>

The 235 plans didn't call for putting stops just beyond the maximum
travel of the rudder pedals, but several builders back in the
eighties pointed out that if a rudder cable let go, you would lose
your brakes as well. I thought the likelihood of a rudder cable
failing was remote, but I glassed in phenolic stops just in case.
I'm sure glad I did because today my left rudder cable separated.



I was resuming taxi testing to condition my new brakes. I'd
accelerate down the runway to maybe 40 MPH and then brake heavily. I
did that several times with absolutely no directional control
problems like I experienced 10 weeks ago. The brakes felt good,
rudder action was smooth, the engine sounded good, and everything
was going swimmingly when the left rudder pedal went to the "floor".
The hair came up on the back of my neck and I gently eased off the
power and tapped lightly on the brakes. Thank God I still had
directional control and brakes! I limped slowly back to the
hanger with no problems other then the left rudder pedal resting on
the stop.



After shutdown and egress, I looked in the foot-well and the rudder
cable had come loose from the turnbuckle - either the cable had
pulled out of the nicopress sleeve, or had just broken off. I won't
be able to tell until I remove the canopy, upper cowling, and header
tank again (sigh). I think someone is really looking out for me by
making all these problems present themselves before the first
flight!



This photo is out of focus, but the cable seems to have pulled out
of the nicopress crimp-sleeve. You can see the 1/4" phenolic stop
protruding out from the fuselage and blocking the rudder weldment.
Those stops saved me from going off the runway today.



/files/LML/70377-02-01-R/part1.05010909.06060805 [at] comporium.net" sandbox="" width="877" height="585">


Image


Transformed_Lancair baffles, left rudder cable 003.JPG

Rudder pedal stops

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Silvio Novelli <ppxsn [at] novellisouza.com.br>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Rudder pedal stops
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 16:31:47 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

This is what I did in my 320. A kind of balancing connecting both pedals. Not to simple but works fine.




      Silvio Novelli
 Lancair 320 PP-XSN
+55 (14) 9.9614-3129



On 14  Jul 2014,w 29, at 8:41 AM, John Cooper wrote:


The 235 plans didn't call for putting stops just beyond the maximum
travel of the rudder pedals, but several builders back in the
eighties pointed out that if a rudder cable let go, you would lose
your brakes as well. I thought the likelihood of a rudder cable
failing was remote, but I glassed in phenolic stops just in case.
I'm sure glad I did because today my left rudder cable separated.



I was resuming taxi testing to condition my new brakes. I'd
accelerate down the runway to maybe 40 MPH and then brake heavily. I
did that several times with absolutely no directional control
problems like I experienced 10 weeks ago. The brakes felt good,
rudder action was smooth, the engine sounded good, and everything
was going swimmingly when the left rudder pedal went to the "floor".
The hair came up on the back of my neck and I gently eased off the
power and tapped lightly on the brakes. Thank God I still had
directional control and brakes! I limped slowly back to the
hanger with no problems other then the left rudder pedal resting on
the stop.



After shutdown and egress, I looked in the foot-well and the rudder
cable had come loose from the turnbuckle - either the cable had
pulled out of the nicopress sleeve, or had just broken off. I won't
be able to tell until I remove the canopy, upper cowling, and header
tank again (sigh). I think someone is really looking out for me by
making all these problems present themselves before the first
flight!



This photo is out of focus, but the cable seems to have pulled out
of the nicopress crimp-sleeve. You can see the 1/4" phenolic stop
protruding out from the fuselage and blocking the rudder weldment.
Those stops saved me from going off the runway today.



<Transformed_Lancair baffles, left rudder cable 003.JPG>

Rudder pedal stops

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: John Cooper <snopercod [at] comporium.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Rudder pedal stops
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 07:24:42 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Silvio--



What a beautiful installation! A real work of art!



I removed my canopy/cowling top/header tank today and sure enough,
the rudder cable had pulled out of the Nicopress sleeve. The
original Lancair manual didn't offer any advice on what sleeves to
use or what tool to crimp them with, so apparently I chose the wrong
crimping tool - a U.S. Tool model TP-64. Two more things I've
learned is that for stainless steel cables, one is supposed to use
the tin (or zinc) plated copper sleeves. The other thing is that
after crimping, one is supposed to check the crimp with a go-no go
gauge or calipers. I really wish I had known all that when I made
the original crimps.



Today I ordered two new rudder cables with the rotary-swaged "eye"
end on them, some Nicopress sleeves and a go-no go gauge. A member
here has volunteered to loan me his Nicopress crimping tool (Thank
you, Tom!).  I'll be reversing the cables and installing the
nice-looking factory-swaged end on the pedal end of the
cable, and make up the ugly Nicopress crimps back at the rudder so I
can inspect them without removing the header tank. No more
surprises!



--John


From: Silvio Novelli
ppxsn [at] novellisouza.com.br (<>)

Sender: marv [at] lancaironline.net (<>)

Subject: Re: [LML] Rudder pedal
stops
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 16:31:47
-0400
To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

/files/LML/70381-02-01-R/part1.09050405.02080601 [at] comporium.net" sandbox="" alt="Message Header" border="0">



/files/LML/70381-02-01-R/part3.05060003.00050402 [at] comporium.net" sandbox="" alt="Undecoded Message" border="0">

This is what I did in my 320. A kind of balancing connecting both
pedals. Not to simple but works fine.



      Silvio
Novelli
 Lancair
320 PP-XSN
+55
(14) 9.9614-3129



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Rudder pedal stops

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: <marv [at] lancair.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Rudder pedal stops
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 14:00:35 -0400
To: <lml>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
Posted for "Nick Long" <nick [at] beaglepup.info>:

>
John,
>
> Many thanks for your post – this is seriously good timing. I happen to have
>the header tank off my 320 and I’m in the
process of re-routing the brake
>lines. I also noticed that some of the fittings on the rudder cables were
>working loose.
>

> So, I went back and looked at the assembly after your post, and I would have
>the same problem: if a rudder cable let go, I would lose
the brake as well as
>the rudder.
>
> Here is a picture of my installation; it is dual control and adjustable, so
>not the
same as yours, and blocks on the side of the footwell won’t work. But
>it strikes me that there is a really simple solution to fitting a travel
stop
>on the rudder pedals. All it would take is a rod or tube inside the springs.
>It would want to be 3/8” diameter and 2 1/2” long.
It could be a metal tube
>or a plastic rod and it could even have V notches in each and to engage
>securely with the metal parts of the
rudder assembly.
>
> What do people think? Am I re-inventing the wheel? How have people with this
>pedal system done this in the
past?
>
> Yours,
>
> Nick
>
>
>From: John Cooper
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 12:41 PM
>
To: Lancair Mailing List
> Subject: [LML] Rudder pedal stops
>
> The 235 plans didn't call for putting stops just beyond the
maximum travel
>of the rudder pedals, but several builders back in the eighties pointed out
>that if a rudder cable let go, you would
lose your brakes as well. I thought
>the likelihood of a rudder cable failing was remote, but I glassed in
>phenolic stops just in case.
I'm sure glad I did because today my left rudder
>cable separated.
>
> I was resuming taxi testing to condition my new brakes. I'd
accelerate down
>the runway to maybe 40 MPH and then brake heavily. I did that several times
>with absolutely no directional control
problems like I experienced 10 weeks
>ago. The brakes felt good, rudder action was smooth, the engine sounded good,
>and everything was
going swimmingly when the left rudder pedal went to the
>"floor". The hair came up on the back of my neck and I gently eased off the

>power and tapped lightly on the brakes. Thank God I still had directional
>control and brakes! I limped slowly back to the hanger with
no problems other
>then the left rudder pedal resting on the stop.
>
> After shutdown and egress, I looked in the foot-well and
the rudder cable
>had come loose from the turnbuckle - either the cable had pulled out of the
>nicopress sleeve, or had just broken off.
I won't be able to tell until I
>remove the canopy, upper cowling, and header tank again (sigh). I think
>someone is really looking out
for me by making all these problems present
>themselves before the first flight!
>
> This photo is out of focus, but the cable
seems to have pulled out of the
>nicopress crimp-sleeve. You can see the 1/4" phenolic stop protruding out
>from the fuselage and
blocking the rudder weldment. Those stops saved me from
>going off the runway today.
>
>

Rudder pedal stops

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: John Cooper <snopercod [at] comporium.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Rudder pedal stops
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 07:32:34 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Nick--



I'm unfamiliar with the "adjustable" rudder pedals like yours so all
I can do is describe my own train of thought. Not knowing for sure
how my feet would fit in the well, I installed a metal floorboard
like you did, but made provision for several possible locations to
bolt down the rudder pedals. When the seat back was in, I picked the
location that best fit my feet and installed the rudder pedals
there. I made no provision for multiple pilots; This is MY plane and
I will be the only one in the left seat. When I get too old to fly
and sell the plane, the next owner can move the pedals to suit his
physique and buy new rudder cables. On the photo I posted
previously, you can see the series of holes with nutplates for
mounting the rudder mechanism.



The way I look at it, new rudder cables are cheap (in the greater
scheme of things). The new cables with a factory-swaged eye on one
end that I just ordered from Aircraft Spruce will probably cost me
$120 for two. I figure if I ever get 6" shorter and need to move the
pedals, I'll just buy new cables.



I was looking at the crimps on your cables. Obviously, I'm no
expert, but the crimps I see on the Nicopress site look different
than yours; They're perpendicular to the cable. Yours look more like
mine which were crimped in parallel with the cable. Of course, one
of those failed. I'm pleased to see that you used TWO crimps,
though, which I intend to do this time as well. Also, I'll be
reversing my cables so the factory ends are at the pedals and the
Nicopress ends are at the rudder where I can inspect them (and crimp
them easier).



I've also been worrying about "What if the cable slips off the AN111
thimble" (originally recommended in the 235 plans)? That's not a
problem with a clevis as in the photo below, but it will be back at
the rudder with just a thru-bolt. I guess I'll be using an area
washer back there just like we do on rod-end bearings.



Certainly someone here must have some wisdom to add here. What have
others done? (Below is the right cable which didn't fail):



/files/LML/70383-02-01-R/part1.05040609.01000000 [at] comporium.net" sandbox="" width="877" height="585">



--John





Posted for "Nick Long" nick [at] beaglepup.info (<>)

:



> John,

>

> Many thanks for your post – this is seriously good timing. I
happen to have

>the header tank off my 320 and I’m in the process of re-routing
the brake

>lines. I also noticed that some of the fittings on the rudder
cables were

>working loose.

>

> So, I went back and looked at the assembly after your post, and
I would have

>the same problem: if a rudder cable let go, I would lose the
brake as well as

>the rudder.

>

> Here is a picture of my installation; it is dual control and
adjustable, so

>not the same as yours, and blocks on the side of the footwell
won’t work. But

>it strikes me that there is a really simple solution to fitting
a travel stop

>on the rudder pedals. All it would take is a rod or tube inside
the springs.

>It would want to be 3/8” diameter and 2 1/2” long. It could be a
metal tube

>or a plastic rod and it could even have V notches in each and to
engage

>securely with the metal parts of the rudder assembly.

>

> What do people think? Am I re-inventing the wheel? How have
people with this

>pedal system done this in the past?

>

> Yours,

>

> Nick







Image


Transformed_Lancair rudder pedals 004.JPG

Rudder pedal stops

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Steve Colwell <mcmess1919 [at] yahoo.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Rudder pedal stops
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 08:26:17 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

About Nicopress fittings.  This video explains the procedure, tools and verification with a gauge of a correct installation.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jED1HoklilU  Note the spacing of the crimps on the sleeve.  The photo of “the right cable which didn't fail” is not a correct crimp and is much weaker.  In my former life, as a simple yacht merchant, our shop made sailboat rigging.  If a nicopress is done right and installed correctly (this is important too), I would say it is not possible to push hard enough with your foot to cause it to fail.  If cable flex is occurring at the fitting, all bets are off.  

 

Steve Colwell  Legacy

Rudder pedal stops

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: John Cooper <snopercod [at] comporium.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Rudder pedal stops
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:02:12 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Thanks, Steve. I am now in possession of the proper crimping tool,
the Loco-Loc 1-SC that Tom loaned me. I also have a Loco-Loc "GO"
gage which has a  .268 gap. I made a couple of test crimps this
morning and they came out well, although I think they are slightly
over-crimped. My crimps measured .253 and the spec. I found on the
Internet is .255-.265. I need to confirm those are the correct
numbers, though, before adjusting the crimping tool.



Best--



--John


From: "Steve Colwell"
mcmess1919 [at] yahoo.com (<>)

Sender: marv [at] lancaironline.net (<>)

Subject: Rudder pedal stops
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 08:26:17
-0400
To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

/files/LML/70406-02-01-R/part1.06050107.05060402 [at] comporium.net" sandbox="" alt="Message Header" border="0">



/files/LML/70406-02-01-R/part3.08070900.03020801 [at] comporium.net" sandbox="" alt="Undecoded Message" border="0">

About Nicopress fittings.  This video
explains the procedure, tools and verification with a gauge of a
correct installation.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jED1HoklilU 
Note the spacing of the crimps on the sleeve.  The photo
of “the right cable which didn't fail” is not a correct crimp
and is much weaker.  In my former life, as a simple yacht
merchant, our shop made sailboat rigging.  If a nicopress is
done right and installed correctly (this is important too), I
would say it is not possible to push hard enough with your foot
to cause it to fail.  If cable flex is occurring at the fitting,
all bets are off.  

 

Steve Colwell  Legacy



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