OSH Arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

Forums: 

From: Bill George <bgeorge [at] innercite.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: OSH Arrival
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:55:00 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Mike Reinath asked about taxiing on the sod:



Yes, you will be required to get off the pavement as soon as practical, with

reduced runway separation, there is someone right behind you. The sod is

usually in pretty good condition, depending on when the last rain occurred.

I used to go in every year when I owned my Mooney 201, with rubber donuts &

minimal prop clearance. Just keep your speed down to control the pitching.



Bill George

LIV-P N49BG

Placerville, CA

OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Bill Hannahan <wfhannahan [at] yahoo.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: OSH arrival
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:10:48 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

If you have any comments on the Oshkosh arrival procedure you can send them here. My $0.02 below.

https://secure.eaa.org/airventure/atc_feedback.html



Two comments.

1... I flew my Lancair 360 using the high
approach. All traffic was landing 27 and it was busy. The first half of
the approach to Fisk went well. At Fisk I was instructed to descend and
merge with traffic in the low pattern.

Merging fast with slow
traffic miles from the airport out of sight, and instructing them to
maintain 1/2 mile spacing with no S turns is requiring them to violate 
fundamental limitations of physics. The situation will get worse each
year as light sport planes proliferate. This is why pilots of many fast
aircraft are switching to the warbird arrival. If  that is what you
want eliminate the high approach and instruct fast aircraft to use the
warbird arrival.

My recommendation is to keep the fast and slow
aircraft separated by altitude until the controller has them in sight
and calls the turn to base on 27 or final on 36 R/L. The controller can point
out the aircraft to follow and there are at least two sets of eyes
looking for a potential collision instead of one. You could position
another controller out at half mile final watching the merge up close.
That controller would remain silent unless a conflict develops.

2... 
There was a substantial north crosswind. the controller repeatedly
instructed me to fly a close in downwind, which I refused to do as I
was already at my comfort limit. The controller called a very close-in
base behind a slow moving Cessna. Half way through base he instructed 
the Cessna to land long and for me to land on the pink dot, closest to
the threshold.. This called for a steep power off turn to final. With 
a continuous steep turn from downwind I still overshot the centerline somewhat due to the tailwind on base. Had I flown as close in as the
controller wanted, the overshoot would have been been much greater.

With
2,200 hours in the aircraft including countless practice dead stick
landings and many Oshkosh arrivals I found the situation challenging.
I flew on hair trigger, prepared to go around if at any point it became
"uncomfortable".

I am concerned for the new builders who have
just completed flying off the 25 hours on a high performance aircraft
and are bringing it to Oshkosh for the first time, especially
inexperienced pilots who feel compelled to do whatever the controller
calls for.

 Asking
them to perform such an unusual and challenging maneuver is too
dangerous. The compounding of multiple factors, following a slow
aircraft, close in downwind, tailwind on base, close in base and last
minute land short instruction can overload the pilot into a situation
where he is low and slow pulling too much G in a steep turn. That could
easily end with a snap roll into the ground.

Fast aircraft should not be expected to fly as close in on downwind as a the slower aircraft.

The
call to turn base should include the proposed touchdown point so that
he can set the right power setting, and give the pilots at least a
1/3mile final to the proposed touchdown point allowing them enough time
to stabilize their approach.

Given the wide range of experience
of Oshkosh pilots, the arrival procedure should not ask them to do
things that are dramatically different and more difficult than what
they do in their normal flying.

Regards,
Bill Hannahan


OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Douglas Brunner <douglasbrunner [at] earthlink.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] OSH arrival
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:33:19 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
Bill,
 
I absolutely agree with you.  I avoid flying
into Oshkosh and Sun n Fun for much the same reasons as you detail
below.
 
Tried to get the warbird arrival last year.  I
even arranged it with the tower at Fond du Lac.  On my way in to Oshkosh, I
was asked if I was a Warbird - I honestly told them I was not - they told
me I could not have the warbird arrival.  I then tried to get the "turbine
arrival" - they asked me if I was a turbine - again I replied honestly and they
told me I could not have the "turbine arrival".  I was forced to make a
short pattern and land on the taxiway - which
actually worked OK.
 
I don't think the Oshkosh controllers have any idea
about the V speeds of the planes they are controlling.  Their emphasis is
on getting everyone in as quickly as possible whether safely or
not.
 
Because of my experience coming in to Oshkosh last
year, I came in to Fond du Lac this year.
 
D. Brunner
N241DB
----- Original Message -----
To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 1:10
PM
Subject: [LML] OSH arrival


If you have any comments on the Oshkosh arrival
procedure you can send them here. My $0.02 below.

https://secure.eaa.org/airventure/atc_feedback.html




Two comments.

1... I flew my Lancair 360 using
the high approach. All traffic was landing 27 and it was busy. The first
half of the approach to Fisk went well. At Fisk I was instructed to
descend and merge with traffic in the low pattern.

Merging fast
with slow traffic miles from the airport out of sight, and instructing
them to maintain 1/2 mile spacing with no S turns is requiring them to
violate  fundamental limitations of physics. The situation will get
worse each year as light sport planes proliferate. This is why pilots of
many fast aircraft are switching to the warbird arrival. If  that
is what you want eliminate the high approach and instruct fast aircraft
to use the warbird arrival.

My recommendation is to keep the fast
and slow aircraft separated by altitude until the controller has them in
sight and calls the turn to base on 27 or final on 36 R/L. The
controller can point out the aircraft to follow and there are at least
two sets of eyes looking for a potential collision instead of one. You
could position another controller out at half mile final watching the
merge up close. That controller would remain silent unless a conflict
develops.

2...  There was a substantial north crosswind.
the controller repeatedly instructed me to fly a close in downwind,
which I refused to do as I was already at my comfort limit. The
controller called a very close-in base behind a slow moving Cessna. Half
way through base he instructed  the Cessna to land long and for me
to land on the pink dot, closest to the threshold.. This called for a
steep power off turn to final. With  a continuous steep turn from
downwind I still overshot the centerline somewhat due to the tailwind on
base. Had I flown as close in as the controller wanted, the overshoot
would have been been much greater.

With 2,200 hours in the
aircraft including countless practice dead stick landings and many
Oshkosh arrivals I found the situation challenging. I flew on hair
trigger, prepared to go around if at any point it became
"uncomfortable".

I am concerned for the new builders who have
just completed flying off the 25 hours on a high performance aircraft
and are bringing it to Oshkosh for the first time, especially
inexperienced pilots who feel compelled to do whatever the controller
calls for.

 Asking them to perform such an unusual and
challenging maneuver is too dangerous. The compounding of multiple
factors, following a slow aircraft, close in downwind, tailwind on base,
close in base and last minute land short instruction can overload the
pilot into a situation where he is low and slow pulling too much G in a
steep turn. That could easily end with a snap roll into the
ground.

Fast aircraft should not be expected to fly as close in
on downwind as a the slower aircraft.

The call to turn base
should include the proposed touchdown point so that he can set the right
power setting, and give the pilots at least a 1/3mile final to the
proposed touchdown point allowing them enough time to stabilize their
approach.

Given the wide range of experience of Oshkosh pilots,
the arrival procedure should not ask them to do things that are
dramatically different and more difficult than what they do in their
normal flying.

Regards,
Bill Hannahan

wfhannahan [at] yahoo.com


OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Wendell Solesbee <Wendell [at] solesbeeauto.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: OSH arrival
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:49:55 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
I used the warbird arrival this year with no
problems. I reported at Fond du Lac and again at Warbird Island and was cleared
to land on runway 36. Other than a 20 kt crosswind there were no problems. IN
2008 when using the FISK arrival I had to go around three times. When I
tried to extend out to give myself some room someone would cut in front of me.On
the last go around I passed a bonanza on about a one mile final
and landed ahead of him. That experience made me decide to use the warbird
arrival the next year and it worked great.  
 
Wendell Solesbee IVP  N4LK
----- Original Message -----
From:
douglasbrunner [at] earthlink.net (Douglas Brunner)

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:33
AM
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

Bill,
 
I absolutely agree with you.  I avoid flying
into Oshkosh and Sun n Fun for much the same reasons as you detail
below.
 
Tried to get the warbird arrival last year. 
I even arranged it with the tower at Fond du Lac.  On my way in to
Oshkosh, I was asked if I was a Warbird - I honestly told them I was not
- they told me I could not have the warbird arrival.  I then tried
to get the "turbine arrival" - they asked me if I was a turbine - again I
replied honestly and they told me I could not have the "turbine
arrival".  I was forced to make a short pattern and land on the taxiway -
which actually worked OK.
 
I don't think the Oshkosh controllers have any
idea about the V speeds of the planes they are controlling.  Their
emphasis is on getting everyone in as quickly as possible whether safely or
not.
 
Because of my experience coming in to Oshkosh
last year, I came in to Fond du Lac this year.
 
D. Brunner
N241DB
----- Original Message -----
To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 1:10
PM
Subject: [LML] OSH arrival


If you have any comments on the Oshkosh arrival
procedure you can send them here. My $0.02 below.

https://secure.eaa.org/airventure/atc_feedback.html




Two comments.

1... I flew my Lancair 360 using
the high approach. All traffic was landing 27 and it was busy. The
first half of the approach to Fisk went well. At Fisk I was instructed
to descend and merge with traffic in the low pattern.

Merging
fast with slow traffic miles from the airport out of sight, and
instructing them to maintain 1/2 mile spacing with no S turns is
requiring them to violate  fundamental limitations of physics.
The situation will get worse each year as light sport planes
proliferate. This is why pilots of many fast aircraft are switching to
the warbird arrival. If  that is what you want eliminate the high
approach and instruct fast aircraft to use the warbird
arrival.

My recommendation is to keep the fast and slow
aircraft separated by altitude until the controller has them in sight
and calls the turn to base on 27 or final on 36 R/L. The controller
can point out the aircraft to follow and there are at least two sets
of eyes looking for a potential collision instead of one. You could
position another controller out at half mile final watching the merge
up close. That controller would remain silent unless a conflict
develops.

2...  There was a substantial north crosswind.
the controller repeatedly instructed me to fly a close in downwind,
which I refused to do as I was already at my comfort limit. The
controller called a very close-in base behind a slow moving Cessna.
Half way through base he instructed  the Cessna to land long and
for me to land on the pink dot, closest to the threshold.. This called
for a steep power off turn to final. With  a continuous steep
turn from downwind I still overshot the centerline somewhat due to the
tailwind on base. Had I flown as close in as the controller wanted,
the overshoot would have been been much greater.

With 2,200
hours in the aircraft including countless practice dead stick landings
and many Oshkosh arrivals I found the situation challenging. I flew on
hair trigger, prepared to go around if at any point it became
"uncomfortable".

I am concerned for the new builders who have
just completed flying off the 25 hours on a high performance aircraft
and are bringing it to Oshkosh for the first time, especially
inexperienced pilots who feel compelled to do whatever the controller
calls for.

 Asking them to perform such an unusual and
challenging maneuver is too dangerous. The compounding of multiple
factors, following a slow aircraft, close in downwind, tailwind on
base, close in base and last minute land short instruction can
overload the pilot into a situation where he is low and slow pulling
too much G in a steep turn. That could easily end with a snap roll
into the ground.

Fast aircraft should not be expected to fly as
close in on downwind as a the slower aircraft.

The call to
turn base should include the proposed touchdown point so that he can
set the right power setting, and give the pilots at least a 1/3mile
final to the proposed touchdown point allowing them enough time to
stabilize their approach.

Given the wide range of experience of
Oshkosh pilots, the arrival procedure should not ask them to do things
that are dramatically different and more difficult than what they do
in their normal flying.

Regards,
Bill Hannahan

wfhannahan [at] yahoo.com


OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Colyn Case at earthlink <colyncase [at] earthlink.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: OSH arrival
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:52:17 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
do you actually have to lie to get the warbird
arrival?
----- Original Message -----
From:
Wendell [at] solesbeeauto.com (Wendell Solesbee)

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:49
PM
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

I used the warbird arrival this year with no
problems. I reported at Fond du Lac and again at Warbird Island and was
cleared to land on runway 36. Other than a 20 kt crosswind there were no
problems. IN 2008 when using the FISK arrival I had to go around three
times. When I tried to extend out to give myself some room someone would cut
in front of me.On the last go around I passed a bonanza on about
a one mile final and landed ahead of him. That experience made me decide
to use the warbird arrival the next year and it worked
great.  
 
Wendell Solesbee IVP  N4LK
----- Original Message -----
From:
douglasbrunner [at] earthlink.net (Douglas Brunner)

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:33
AM
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

Bill,
 
I absolutely agree with you.  I avoid
flying into Oshkosh and Sun n Fun for much the same reasons as you detail
below.
 
Tried to get the warbird arrival last
year.  I even arranged it with the tower at Fond du Lac.  On my
way in to Oshkosh, I was asked if I was a Warbird - I honestly told them I
was not - they told me I could not have the warbird arrival.  I
then tried to get the "turbine arrival" - they asked me if I was a turbine -
again I replied honestly and they told me I could not have the "turbine
arrival".  I was forced to make a short pattern and land on the taxiway
- which actually worked OK.
 
I don't think the Oshkosh controllers have any
idea about the V speeds of the planes they are controlling.  Their
emphasis is on getting everyone in as quickly as possible whether safely or
not.
 
 

OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: <vtailjeff [at] aol.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: OSH arrival
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:24:00 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

nope--not at all





-----Original Message-----

From: Colyn Case at earthlink <colyncase [at] earthlink.net>

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 6:52 am

Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival


do you actually have to lie to get the warbird arrival?
----- Original Message -----
From: Wendell [at] solesbeeauto.com (Wendell Solesbee)

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:49 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

I used the warbird arrival this year with no problems. I reported at Fond du Lac and again at Warbird Island and was cleared to land on runway 36. Other than a 20 kt crosswind there were no problems. IN 2008 when using the FISK arrival I had to go around three times. When I tried to extend out to give myself some room someone would cut in front of me.On the last go around I passed a bonanza on about a one mile final and landed ahead of him. That experience made me decide to use the warbird arrival the next year and it worked great.  
 
Wendell Solesbee IVP  N4LK
----- Original Message -----
From: douglasbrunner [at] earthlink.net (Douglas Brunner)

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:33 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

Bill,
 
I absolutely agree with you.  I avoid flying into Oshkosh and Sun n Fun for much the same reasons as you detail below.
 
Tried to get the warbird arrival last year.  I even arranged it with the tower at Fond du Lac.  On my way in to Oshkosh, I was asked if I was a Warbird - I honestly told them I was not - they told me I could not have the warbird arrival.  I then tried to get the "turbine arrival" - they asked me if I was a turbine - again I replied honestly and they told me I could not have the "turbine arrival".  I was forced to make a short pattern and land on the taxiway - which actually worked OK.
 
I don't think the Oshkosh controllers have any idea about the V speeds of the planes they are controlling.  Their emphasis is on getting everyone in as quickly as possible whether safely or not.
 
 

OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Craig Gainza <cgainza [at] msn.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: OSH arrival
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:32:40 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

The warbird arrival is the best way to go.  We call in black and white Lancair over Fond du Lac and have never been questioned.  This year they asked us if we could keep our speed up in front of the mass arrival of 40+ RV's.  No problem!

We were out of the airplane at Aeroshell square before the RV's landed.

Craig and Sandy Gainza
IV-P 


To: lml [at] lancaironline.net
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:24:00 -0400
From: vtailjeff [at] aol.com
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

nope--not at all





-----Original Message-----

From: Colyn Case at earthlink <colyncase [at] earthlink.net>

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 6:52 am

Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival


do you actually have to lie to get the warbird arrival?
----- Original Message -----
From: Wendell [at] solesbeeauto.com (Wendell Solesbee)

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:49 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

I used the warbird arrival this year with no problems. I reported at Fond du Lac and again at Warbird Island and was cleared to land on runway 36. Other than a 20 kt crosswind there were no problems. IN 2008 when using the FISK arrival I had to go around three times. When I tried to extend out to give myself some room someone would cut in front of me.On the last go around I passed a bonanza on about a one mile final and landed ahead of him. That experience made me decide to use the warbird arrival the next year and it worked great.  
 
Wendell Solesbee IVP  N4LK
----- Original Message -----
From: douglasbrunner [at] earthlink.net (Douglas Brunner)

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:33 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

Bill,
 
I absolutely agree with you.  I avoid flying into Oshkosh and Sun n Fun for much the same reasons as you detail below.
 
Tried to get the warbird arrival last year.  I even arranged it with the tower at Fond du Lac.  On my way in to Oshkosh, I was asked if I was a Warbird - I honestly told them I was not - they told me I could not have the warbird arrival.  I then tried to get the "turbine arrival" - they asked me if I was a turbine - again I replied honestly and they told me I could not have the "turbine arrival".  I was forced to make a short pattern and land on the taxiway - which actually worked OK.
 
I don't think the Oshkosh controllers have any idea about the V speeds of the planes they are controlling.  Their emphasis is on getting everyone in as quickly as possible whether safely or not.
 
 

OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Wendell Solesbee <Wendell [at] solesbeeauto.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: OSH arrival
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:03:25 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
We did the same, no probem.
 
Wendell Solesbee IVP N4LK
----- Original Message -----
From:
cgainza [at] msn.com (Craig Gainza)

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 1:32
PM
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

The warbird arrival is the best way to go.  We call in
black and white Lancair over Fond du Lac and have never been questioned. 
This year they asked us if we could keep our speed up in front of the mass
arrival of 40+ RV's.  No problem!

We were out of the airplane at
Aeroshell square before the RV's landed.

Craig and Sandy
Gainza
IV-P 

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:24:00 -0400
From:
vtailjeff [at] aol.com
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

nope--not at all



-----Original Message-----
From: Colyn Case at earthlink
<colyncase [at] earthlink.net>
To: lml [at] lancaironline.net
Sent: Mon, Aug
17, 2009 6:52 am
Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

do you actually have to lie to get the warbird
arrival?
-----
Original Message -----
From:
Wendell [at] solesbeeauto.com (Wendell Solesbee)

To:
lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent:
Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:49 PM
Subject:
[LML] Re: OSH arrival

I used the warbird arrival this year with no
problems. I reported at Fond du Lac and again at Warbird Island and was
cleared to land on runway 36. Other than a 20 kt crosswind there were no
problems. IN 2008 when using the FISK arrival I had to go around three
times. When I tried to extend out to give myself some room someone would cut
in front of me.On the last go around I passed a bonanza on about
a one mile final and landed ahead of him. That experience made me
decide to use the warbird arrival the next year and it worked
great.  
 
Wendell Solesbee IVP  N4LK
-----
Original Message -----
From:
douglasbrunner [at] earthlink.net (Douglas Brunner)

To:
lml [at] lancaironline.net

Sent:
Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:33 AM
Subject:
[LML] Re: OSH arrival

Bill,
 
I absolutely agree with you.  I avoid
flying into Oshkosh and Sun n Fun for much the same reasons as you detail
below.
 
Tried to get the warbird arrival last
year.  I even arranged it with the tower at Fond du Lac.  On my
way in to Oshkosh, I was asked if I was a Warbird - I honestly told them I
was not - they told me I could not have the warbird arrival.  I
then tried to get the "turbine arrival" - they asked me if I was a turbine
- again I replied honestly and they told me I could not have the "turbine
arrival".  I was forced to make a short pattern and land on the
taxiway - which actually worked OK.
 
I don't think the Oshkosh controllers have
any idea about the V speeds of the planes they are controlling. 
Their emphasis is on getting everyone in as quickly as possible whether
safely or not.
 
 

OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: randy snarr <randylsnarr [at] yahoo.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: OSH arrival
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:11:10 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

On a side note, I left OSH to meet some friends at Door County about 90 NM north east. Beautiful country by the way. Anyway, whilst taking my time coming back and enjoying the sights, I overheard ATC on 120.7 say the field was closing 15 minutes early. Crap!!! There was no way for me to make it to Ripon from where I was in time. I thought a minute and called the tower and identified myself and asked confidently for the war bird arrival.

They brought be right in on RW 27. I was the last plane to land that day before the airshow..In fact the whole potato waited until I got out of the way to start the airshow...



Thanks to all who lobbied hard for the faster planes to use this approach. I just kept it fire walled to maintain just below 200 KTS so they would not suspect I was a 235/320 impersonating a Legacy. I promise not to abuse this privilege... unless I get in another bind...



BTW, OSH was a blast this year. Hope everyone enjoyed it as much as I did...



Randy L. Snarr

N694RS 235/320



--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Wendell Solesbee <Wendell [at] solesbeeauto.com> wrote:



> From: Wendell Solesbee <Wendell [at] solesbeeauto.com>

> Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

> To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 4:03 PM

>

>

>  

> #yiv17088201 .hmmessage P {

> PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;}

> #yiv17088201 {

> FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;FONT-SIZE:10pt;}

>

>

>  

>  

> We did the same, no

> probem.

>  

> Wendell Solesbee IVP

> N4LK

>

>   ----- Original Message

> -----

>   From:

>   Craig Gainza

>

>   To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

>

>   Sent: Tuesday,

> August 18, 2009 1:32

>   PM

>   Subject: [LML] Re:

> OSH arrival

>  

> The warbird arrival is the best way to go.  We

> call in

>   black and white Lancair over Fond du Lac and have never

> been questioned. 

>   This year they asked us if we could keep our speed up in

> front of the mass

>   arrival of 40+ RV's.  No problem!

>

> We were out of the airplane at

>   Aeroshell square before the RV's landed.

>

> Craig and Sandy

>   Gainza

> IV-P 

>

>

>  

>   To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:24:00 -0400

> From:

>   vtailjeff [at] aol.com

> Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

>

> nope--not at all

>  

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Colyn Case at earthlink

>   <colyncase [at] earthlink.net>

> To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

> Sent: Mon, Aug

>   17, 2009 6:52 am

> Subject: [LML] Re: OSH arrival

>

>

>  

>   do you actually have to

> lie to get the warbird

>   arrival?

>  

>     -----

>     Original Message -----

>     From:

>

>     Wendell

> Solesbee

>     To:

>

>     lml [at] lancaironline.net

>

>     Sent:

>

>     Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:49 PM

>     Subject:

>

>     [LML] Re: OSH arrival

>    

>

>     I used the warbird

> arrival this year with no

>     problems. I reported at Fond du Lac and again at

> Warbird Island and was

>     cleared to land on runway 36. Other than a 20 kt

> crosswind there were no

>     problems. IN 2008 when using the FISK arrival I

> had to go around three

>     times. When I tried to extend out to give myself some

> room someone would cut

>     in front of me.On the last go around I passed a

> bonanza on about

>     a one mile final and landed ahead of him. That

> experience made me

>     decide to use the warbird arrival the next year

> and it worked

>     great.  

>      

>     Wendell Solesbee

> IVP  N4LK

>    

>       -----

>       Original Message -----

>       From:

>

>       Douglas

> Brunner

>       To:

>

>       lml [at] lancaironline.net

>

>       Sent:

>

>       Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:33 AM

>       Subject:

>

>       [LML] Re: OSH arrival

>      

>

>       Bill,

>        

>       I absolutely agree

> with you.  I avoid

>       flying into Oshkosh and Sun n Fun for much the same

> reasons as you detail

>       below.

>        

>       Tried to get the

> warbird arrival last

>       year.  I even arranged it with the tower at Fond

> du Lac.  On my

>       way in to Oshkosh, I was asked if I was a Warbird - I

> honestly told them I

>       was not - they told me I could not have the

> warbird arrival.  I

>       then tried to get the "turbine arrival" -

> they asked me if I was a turbine

>       - again I replied honestly and they told me I could

> not have the "turbine

>       arrival".  I was forced to make a short

> pattern and land on the

>       taxiway - which

> actually worked OK.

>        

>       I don't think

> the Oshkosh controllers have

>       any idea about the V speeds of the planes they are

> controlling. 

>       Their emphasis is on getting everyone in as quickly

> as possible whether

>       safely or not.

>        

>        

>    

>





      

OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: <cfi [at] instructor.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: OSH arrival
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 12:45:50 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Last year at OSH, I was standing next to the runway when Jack Roush landed in his Premier jet and at the time I was thinking "holy Sh*t".   He was turning on final at the end of the runway with his wing about 3' off the ground.   I also thought at the time how stupid that move was.   Well, this year he did the same thing only the outcome wasn't quite so "cool" to all the spectators.   Here are some pictures.



http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/jack_roushs_plane_crashed_pictures#tab=m...



http://jalopnik.com/5598098/jack-roush-in-plane-crash-at-oshkosh



Ron Galbraith

OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Douglas Brunner <douglasbrunner [at] earthlink.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [LML] OSH arrival
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:42:34 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots ……

 

From: Lancair Mailing
List [lml [at] lancaironline.net]">mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of cfi [at] instructor.net

Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 12:46 PM

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Subject: [LML] OSH arrival

 

Last year at OSH, I was standing
next to the runway when Jack Roush landed in his Premier jet and at the time I
was thinking "holy Sh*t".   He was turning on final at the
end of the runway with his wing about 3' off the ground.   I also
thought at the time how stupid that move was.   Well, this year he
did the same thing only the outcome wasn't quite so "cool" to all the
spectators.   Here are some pictures.



http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/jack_roushs_plane_crashed_pictures#tab=m...



http://jalopnik.com/5598098/jack-roush-in-plane-crash-at-oshkosh



Ron Galbraith

OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: John Hafen <j.hafen [at] comcast.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: OSH arrival
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 07:39:18 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

And Jack Roush seems to just be getting older AND bolder.  I want to take that guy to Vegas on my next trip.


I wonder what he will crash next.

John Hafen

On Aug 1, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Douglas Brunner wrote:




There are old pilots and there are bold pilots ……

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net]">mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of cfi [at] instructor.net


Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 12:46 PM
To: lml [at] lancaironline.net


Subject: [LML] OSH arrival

 

Last year at OSH, I was standing next to the runway when Jack Roush landed in his Premier jet and at the time I was thinking "holy Sh*t".   He was turning on final at the end of the runway with his wing about 3' off the ground.   I also thought at the time how stupid that move was.   Well, this year he did the same thing only the outcome wasn't quite so "cool" to all the spectators.   Here are some pictures.

http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/jack_roushs_plane_crashed_pictures#tab=most_recent

http://jalopnik.com/5598098/jack-roush-in-plane-crash-at-oshkosh

Ron Galbraith


OSH arrival

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Steve Colwell <mcmess1919 [at] yahoo.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: OSH arrival
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 08:25:44 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Berni,

 

We have flown into OSH for many years using the “high speed” arrival starting at Fisk.  Sometimes it works fine, sometimes planes get stacked up with close spacing, guys start slowing down, making S turns, etc. and it can get scary.  The Warbird arrival is much safer for our Lancairs in my opinion.  It is less congested on any given day and the speeds are easier to manage.  Just my two cents worth.   Don’t forget to make a sign with big black letters that says “HBP LANCAIRS” instead of the standard “HBP,” for display after clearing the runway to park with the Lancairs.

 

Steve Colwell  Legacy