Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy

Submitted by Anonymous on

Forums: 

From: <bakercdb [at] gmail.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 13:27:29 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>

I appear to have suffered the starter adapter failure on my Legacy (IO550N) at 145hrs TT. This was somewhat surprising as I swapped the dreaded Iskra starter for a SkyTec ST5 (12V) before I installed the (new) engine in my Legacy. So, the Iskra never ran on my engine (save the short test cell time).



Any tips for the Legacy?  I remember seeing something at one time on the LML.  But I couldn't find it (and never saved it knowing that I was "safe" from this issue as I never ran the Iskra).



I do remember that you do have to pull the engine away from the mounts to access the drive.



But, any non obvious tips would be much appreciated.



Thanks

Clark Baker



 

mobile: +44 7557 804 630

Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Douglas Brunner <douglasbrunner [at] earthlink.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [LML] Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:21:45 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Sorry to hear it.



I had the same problem with a Lamar Starter at about 150 hrs.



The 10:1 compression may be a contributing factor.



-----Original Message-----

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

] On Behalf Of

bakercdb [at] gmail.com

Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 1:27 PM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy



I appear to have suffered the starter adapter failure on my Legacy (IO550N)

at 145hrs TT. This was somewhat surprising as I swapped the dreaded Iskra

starter for a SkyTec ST5 (12V) before I installed the (new) engine in my

Legacy. So, the Iskra never ran on my engine (save the short test cell

time).



Any tips for the Legacy?  I remember seeing something at one time on the

LML.  But I couldn't find it (and never saved it knowing that I was "safe"

from this issue as I never ran the Iskra).



I do remember that you do have to pull the engine away from the mounts to

access the drive.



But, any non obvious tips would be much appreciated.



Thanks

Clark Baker



 

mobile: +44 7557 804 630



--

For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html





---

This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

http://www.avast.com

Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Kevin Stallard <kevin [at] arilabs.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [LML] Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:21:59 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

What are the symptoms?



Niagara air parts are really knowledge able on this.



http://www.niagaraairparts.com



Kevin



________________________________________

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of bakercdb [at] gmail.com [bakercdb [at] gmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 11:27 AM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy



I appear to have suffered the starter adapter failure on my Legacy (IO550N) at 145hrs TT. This was somewhat surprising as I swapped the dreaded Iskra starter for a SkyTec ST5 (12V) before I installed the (new) engine in my Legacy. So, the Iskra never ran on my engine (save the short test cell time).



Any tips for the Legacy?  I remember seeing something at one time on the LML.  But I couldn't find it (and never saved it knowing that I was "safe" from this issue as I never ran the Iskra).



I do remember that you do have to pull the engine away from the mounts to access the drive.



But, any non obvious tips would be much appreciated.



Thanks

Clark Baker





mobile: +44 7557 804 630



--

For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html

Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: John Smith <john [at] jjts.net.au>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 07:16:09 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
Hi Kevin,

Sorry to hear you have this issue.

It happened to me about year ago. Unlike yourself, I had started with the Iskra and then switched to the Skytec unit.

You’ve probably checked this, but if not – in the unlikely event that the starter has failed, there is plug on the side of the Skytec starter body which you can remove and observe whether the sktec is in fact engaging or not. Worth a quick check if you haven’t done this.  But – assuming the Skytec is fine, read on!

You do not necessarily have to move the engine forward, or lift it up off the mount as I believe some have done  – I didn’t have touch the engine mounting.  So – if you want to avoid dong this, you might want to try what I did – it worked fine. 

The problem for us is that the adapter is fixed to the block with studs. But we do not have enough room to withdraw the adapter backwards and clear all of the studs – I think was two that wouldn’t clear. I can’t recall which, but once you look at it, you’ll see which ones they are.  So – I removed the offending studs with a stud extractor – took a bit of doing as I assume the studs are installed with super Loktite or similar, but they came out OK. Withdrew the adapter, and my Lame fitted a new shaft and spring which luckily for me was provided by TCM under a warranty claim. Meanwhile – removed the other studs, and then reinstalled the adapter with a set of properly spec’d bolts (length etc critical of course) instead of the two above offending studs.

If the adapter ever fails again – it will now be a very simple job to remove the starter adapter.  

I guess I should caution that I don’t know if what I did is endorsed by TCM – it may be, but I don’t know; I did check with my LAME and he considered it fine, but your call of course here!

Good luck!


Regards,



John

John N G Smith

Tel / fax:    +61-8-9385-8891

Mobile:      +61-409-372-975

Email:         john [at] jjts.net.au

Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: John Smith <john [at] jjts.net.au>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 07:16:22 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
Ooops – sorry Clark – my prior message on the starter adapter should have read “Hi Clark”!


Regards,



John

John N G Smith

Tel / fax:    +61-8-9385-8891

Mobile:      +61-409-372-975

Email:         john [at] jjts.net.au



From: John <john [at] jjts.net.au

>
Date: Friday, 26 September 2014 4:07 pm
To: Lancair Mailing List <lml [at] lancaironline.net

>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy

Hi Kevin,

Sorry to hear you have this issue.

It happened to me about year ago. Unlike yourself, I had started with the Iskra and then switched to the Skytec unit.

You’ve probably checked this, but if not – in the unlikely event that the starter has failed, there is plug on the side of the Skytec starter body which you can remove and observe whether the sktec is in fact engaging or not. Worth a quick check if you haven’t done this.  But – assuming the Skytec is fine, read on!

You do not necessarily have to move the engine forward, or lift it up off the mount as I believe some have done  – I didn’t have touch the engine mounting.  So – if you want to avoid dong this, you might want to try what I did – it worked fine. 

The problem for us is that the adapter is fixed to the block with studs. But we do not have enough room to withdraw the adapter backwards and clear all of the studs – I think was two that wouldn’t clear. I can’t recall which, but once you look at it, you’ll see which ones they are.  So – I removed the offending studs with a stud extractor – took a bit of doing as I assume the studs are installed with super Loktite or similar, but they came out OK. Withdrew the adapter, and my Lame fitted a new shaft and spring which luckily for me was provided by TCM under a warranty claim. Meanwhile – removed the other studs, and then reinstalled the adapter with a set of properly spec’d bolts (length etc critical of course) instead of the two above offending studs.

If the adapter ever fails again – it will now be a very simple job to remove the starter adapter.  

I guess I should caution that I don’t know if what I did is endorsed by TCM – it may be, but I don’t know; I did check with my LAME and he considered it fine, but your call of course here!

Good luck!


Regards,



John

John N G Smith

Tel / fax:    +61-8-9385-8891

Mobile:      +61-409-372-975

Email:         john [at] jjts.net.au

Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Colyn Case <colyncase [at] earthlink.net>
Subject: Fwd: [LML] Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 21:57:23 -0400
To: lml [at] lancaironline.net List <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Posting for Neal George...



 

From: Neal George 
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:56 AM
To: 'Lancair Mailing List'
Subject: [LML] Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy

 

Gentlemen –

It is nearly impossible to replace a Permold starter adapter correctly in most aircraft without dismounting the engine.  Yes, it’s a pain, but it’s the only way to do it right.

 

Starter adapter studs are an interference fit in a thru-hole in the crankcase.  The interference fit damages the threads of the stud and the hole.  In addition to the interference fit, studs are installed with Loctite 271 – it makes the installation “permanent” and contributes to sealing the hole against oil leakage.

 

Instructions for removing a stud installed with Loctite 271 include raising the temperature of the assembly to about 400-degrees F to soften the adhesive.  Nine times out of ten, removing a stud without heat will also remove aluminum from the threads – if the stud doesn’t break at the first exposed thread. 

 

Nominal-size steel bolts – for example, AN5-40A – will not achieve proper thread engagement in a new stud hole, much less a deformed one.  Without proper thread engagement, correct fastener torque cannot be applied and maintained. 

 

The overhaul manual (M16) lists a number of approved repairs for damaged threaded holes.  The starter adapter stud locations are not addressed.

 

Neal

=========================

The problem for us is that the adapter is fixed to the block with studs. But we do not have enough room to withdraw the adapter backwards and clear all of the studs – I think was two that wouldn’t clear. I can’t recall which, but once you look at it, you’ll see which ones they are.  So – I removed the offending studs with a stud extractor – took a bit of doing as I assume the studs are installed with super Loktite or similar, but they came out OK. Withdrew the adapter, and my Lame fitted a new shaft and spring which luckily for me was provided by TCM under a warranty claim. Meanwhile – removed the other studs, and then reinstalled the adapter with a set of properly spec’d bolts (length etc critical of course) instead of the two above offending studs.

 

If the adapter ever fails again – it will now be a very simple job to remove the starter adapter.  

 

I guess I should caution that I don’t know if what I did is endorsed by TCM – it may be, but I don’t know; I did check with my LAME and he considered it fine, but your call of course here!

 

Good luck!

Regards,

John
John N G Smith



Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Neal George <ngeorge [at] continentalmotors.aero>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: [LML] Continental starter adapter failure- Legacy
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:54:41 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Gentlemen –

It is nearly impossible to replace a Permold starter adapter correctly in most aircraft without dismounting the engine. 
Yes, it’s a pain, but it’s the only way to do it right.

 

Starter adapter studs are an interference fit in a thru-hole in the crankcase.
 The interference fit damages the threads of the stud and the hole. 
In addition to the interference fit, studs are installed with Loctite 271 – it makes the installation “permanent” and contributes to sealing the hole against oil leakage.

 

Instructions for removing a stud installed with Loctite 271 include raising the temperature of the assembly to about
400-degrees F to soften the adhesive.  Nine times out of ten, removing a stud without heat will also remove aluminum from the threads – if the stud doesn’t break at the first exposed thread. 

 

Nominal-size steel bolts – for example, AN5-40A – will not achieve proper thread engagement in a new stud hole, much
less a deformed one.  Without proper thread engagement, correct fastener torque cannot be applied and maintained. 

 

The overhaul manual (M16) lists a number of approved repairs for damaged threaded holes. 
The starter adapter stud locations are not addressed.

 

Neal

=========================

The problem for us is that the adapter is fixed to the block with studs. But we do not have enough room to withdraw the
adapter backwards and clear all of the studs – I think was two that wouldn’t clear. I can’t recall which, but once you look at it, you’ll see which ones they are.  So – I removed the offending studs with a stud extractor – took a bit of doing as I assume the
studs are installed with super Loktite or similar, but they came out OK. Withdrew the adapter, and my Lame fitted a new shaft and spring which luckily for me was provided by TCM under a warranty claim. Meanwhile – removed the other studs, and then reinstalled
the adapter with a set of properly spec’d bolts (length etc critical of course) instead of the two above offending studs.

 

If the adapter ever fails again – it will now be a very simple job to remove the starter adapter.  

 

I guess I should caution that I don’t know if what I did is endorsed by TCM – it may be, but I don’t know; I did check
with my LAME and he considered it fine, but your call of course here!

 

Good luck!

Regards,

John

John N G Smith